Forums - Question for omni, Chen, Choi about OLD SCHOOL SF Show all 69 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Question for omni, Chen, Choi about OLD SCHOOL SF (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13467) Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 12:07 AM: It's so cool to see this website and find out about how the best SF players operate and stuff. Ive loved learning about CvS and MvC2 while I'm playin em.. but I'm curious about top play in the OLD SCHOOL stuff I used to play.. SF: WW, Turbo, (maybe even a little MK, but I didnt say that) I pretty much figured out a lot of strategy and strong play on my own, but Im curious how the best saw the top tiers in those games and how each character was played! Everyone says Guile and Dhalsim owned WW. I think it was Guile, then Ryu and Ken. I cant see why anyone could say "Dhalsim beats Ryu" when limbs are DPable And then in CE and Turbo, did any characters make a jump due to new talents(Chun's Fireball, for example)? I always thought it was still Guile, Ryu, Ken, but also Sagat and Bison when I did the scrubby "repeated torpedo" technique LOL So who were the top tiers in WW - Turbo(Super if u dont mind the extra typing time) and how were they played? Posted by psx2000 on 04:19:2001 12:09 AM: Man this is probably one of the best questions or requests i seen in a long time this is crazy! i hope it gets answered i myself am kinda curious to read this. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 12:29 AM: Haha, thanx. Thats why I started an MK thread in General Discussion too... Had to see if Kabal was as good as I thought LOL But yeah, I've been wondering this since I 1st saw SRK. How weird would championship World Warrior video be? LOL Posted by omni on 04:19:2001 01:41 AM: The pretty much accepted American Top Tier for World Warrior is Guile and Dhalsim. Ryu and Ken are by far the worst in the game. There fireballs suck, their jab dragon punches don't even knock down in one hit, and their hurricane kicks are nothing to write home about. Guile just ran over everyone in this game, with the exception of Dhalsim just due to innate character design differences. Dhalsim was very good as well. Champion Edition: Bison was easily #1 with his scissor kick trap and redizzies. The Scissor kick didn't knock down which allowed him to link low strong afterwards which set up his redizzy combo. Even if blocked, he had frame advantage against a lot of people, allowing him to either continue with the blocked damage pressure or throw them. Guile still remains top tier. Beyond that, Sagat and Ryu were both really good. Hyper Fighting: Guile and Ryu are arguably #1 - sometimes even tied for 1st place. The rest of the top tier is argued upon often, usually consisting of these chars in some order: Sagat, Balrog, Zangief, Dhalsim and every now and then Blanka. My personal order goes Ryu, Guile, Sagat, Balrog but i'm sure I'm biased. Super Street Fighter 2: Dhalsim and Sagat ruled this game. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo: Balrog, O.Sagat, Bison, Ryu/Dhalsim is the usual accepted top tier for ST. I need to get going, let me know if you want me to expound upon anything. Hope this helps. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by Geese on 04:19:2001 02:13 AM: omni, u know u admire me man! Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 02:20 AM: VERY INTERESTING! Ryu and Ken the worst in SF2: WW?? You're tellin me a good player using Zangief will beat a good player using Ryu?? Everything u've said makes sense to me, but this part is a shocker. I know why Guile was tops.. but could u go a little into how Dhalsim(and anyone else considered "good") was played in WW? I mean, limbs were DP-able LOL Also, the Bison scizzor into cSP in CE .. could u just repeat that? What did Ryu gain in CE and T that made him so much better? Just a faster fireball and a knock down DP? Would u also go into a little how Dhalsim and Sagat "ruled" Super.. I played this almost as much as WW, and I always liked Guile, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Balrog, and Vega Posted by crono on 04:19:2001 04:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa VERY INTERESTING! Ryu and Ken the worst in SF2: WW?? You're tellin me a good player using Zangief will beat a good player using Ryu?? Everything u've said makes sense to me, but this part is a shocker. Ya, its completely true. If you can find the tapes of the first WW International Championships, almost the entire field was Grief and Dhal. The Grief player would patiently approach the few Shoto, and Guile players, knowing Greif had incredable reach advatage, and the opponent would eventually throw something, the Grief player simply blocks and executes a pile driver and since you landed next to them afterwards, you were setup to do it again! Its here in the US that Guile became top char but the first, and if I'm not mistaken the second WW world champ was a Grief player. If you ever get a chance to watch the vid, a Grief versus Greif match at top level will bring a smile if not laughter! quote: I know why Guile was tops.. but could u go a little into how Dhalsim(and anyone else considered "good") was played in WW? I mean, limbs were DP-able LOL Also, the Bison scizzor into cSP in CE .. could u just repeat that? Dhal, had the most amazing attributes in the game, but not quite 1/3 life good, though plenty good enough. His overall control of space was second to none, and thats what it was all about. With his slide you did not have to really fear fireballs or crossover happy people. With his reach, you could play to keep people grounded and poke them gode them in tossing stuff that they have no business using. A friend of mine used Dhal, and against Blanka players would use the ducking jab alot, and the recovery is surprisingly fast. To a standing short, and you've knocked blanka out of his charge. So the blanka player wises up, tries to jump in instead of counter attacking, only if you come on in Dhal, you are likely to get thrown or sweeped out it frustrated everyone. And after a few of both blanka findes himself turtling, but if Dhal mixes standing roundhouse and fireballs with proper spacing, its practically impossible to get it. quote: What did Ryu gain in CE and T that made him so much better? Just a faster fireball and a knock down DP? You've kinda got it here, only it was the fact that not only did you knock them down, but it did alot more damage as well. It is akin to the ground series that people use the the versus series today. The hurricane did excellent damage and knock you down. Infact with his basic ground series he did excellent damage without the possiblity of retaliation , and ultimately guranteed(sp?) damage. This set Ryu up to begin crossovers, as well as short series ending with fireballs that had to be blocked and Ryu faced almost no retailition from. quote: Would u also go into a little how Dhalsim and Sagat "ruled" Super.. I played this almost as much as WW, and I always liked Guile, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Balrog, and Vega Unfortunately I never got into Super, I guess I've have to leave it to the actual experts... Posted by chankalok on 04:19:2001 04:29 AM: sf2ce m.bison is not the best......ryu can simple fireball trap him...... "doskoi" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 08:06 AM: How did Dhalsim handle up close anti-air? Howabout Zangief? How did 'gief handle fireball/sonic boom-ers? or even just an aggressive shoto or Guile? Dont tell me just lariats.. And if Dhalsim's keepaway is so good, how could 'gief beat em? High priority jabs? When Gief got his banishing fist(i think it was introduced in SUper, bu it mightve been Turbo), was it really any good? I never thought it was practical in the heat of battle How were Honda, Blanka, and Chun in WW? I always thought everyone had potential, but always saw Guile and Shotos as inherently better than anyone else. Then Sim, then Chun, then Blanka, then Gief, then Honda. But this was off my own discovery, so take it for what u will LOL Posted by omni on 04:19:2001 12:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa VERY INTERESTING! Ryu and Ken the worst in SF2: WW?? You're tellin me a good player using Zangief will beat a good player using Ryu?? Everything u've said makes sense to me, but this part is a shocker. I'm hella tired so I'll just answer this and try to answer the rest tomorrow but it seems like a lot has been expounded on, so let me know if you want something specific answered. In World Warrior - there is no Reversal window what so ever. So if Zangief ever knocked someone down via low roundhouse, a throw, spd, whatever - there was no way to get out of spd ticks in that game. Also - he didn't bounce away after SPD, so as soon as he landed, he had advantage time to walk up and repeat. Granted, the zangief player could have fucked up his timing and you could try to dragon punch out or whatever, but it defintiely isn't in your favor. As far as Bison's redizzy in CE - it was something like umm...low strong into scissor kick, low strong, standing forward and they are dizzy, then jump in roundhouse, low strong, scissor kick, low strong, standing forward. something along those lines...the scissor kick, low strong, standing forward is the important part. me go to bed... Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by Lukesballs on 04:19:2001 02:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by omni As far as Bison's redizzy in CE - it was something like umm...low strong into scissor kick, low strong, standing forward and they are dizzy, then jump in roundhouse, low strong, scissor kick, low strong, standing forward. something along those lines...the scissor kick, low strong, standing forward is the important part. Dood, you didn't even have to jump in on anyone. Just land a scissor kick from ANYWHERE and the game was over. After the scissor kick link c.strong into s.forward. Dizzy. Walk up, do 2 c.jabs, 1 s.jab into forward scissor kick, link c.strong, s.forward, repeat. Bison ruled CE hands down. Geoff Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 04:13 PM: Shiiiiit, I remember back in the day when strong Bison play encompassed holding back for 2 seconds then Psycho Crusher, hold forward, repeat LOL The funny thing was, one could beat 80% of human opponents and 100% of computer opponents that way LOL Posted by jchensor on 04:19:2001 06:23 PM: Luke is right... Most people did that combo, and then did Crouch Roundhouse afterwards (put you in PERFECT position for the Redizzy, still charged). And about 'Gief: yes, Zangief had time, after an SPD, to walk up, jump over, Splash, and go for another SPD tick. Basically, it was like playing Karate Champ. You can keep Zangief away until you drained 99% of his energy. And you have 100% of yours left. But then, he grabs you with ONE SPD on one mistake of yours. Game over. So although keep aways worked REALLY well on 'Gief, all he needed was one in WW. And that's not impossible. Ryu in CE also gained a VERY invincible Hurricane Kick. If Ken EVER did Crouch Roundhouse XX Fireball from Max distance, Ryu could Hurricane Kick, go through it, and take out Ken (or Ryu) cleanly. He could Hurricane Kick Honda's Headbutt. The Hurricane Kick was ALSO invincible when it landed!!! So you could time it so taht Crouch Fierces would whiff if you distanced it so you landed next to them. Added to that the quick fireball and a knock-down Jab DP, Ryu was God in that game. Well, after Bison and Guile, of course. ^_^ Sagat ruled Super because his Teger Shot had NO delay. DAMN, it was SO fast. If Fei Long jumped half a second BEFORE Sagat threw the fireball, Sagat could Tiger Uppercut him. Using 'Gief against Sagat was ALWYS fu, if you could do the glitch well enough (man, I miss that glitch... Hahahahaha... ^_^). And in World Warrior, Ryu and Ken sucked. None of their jumps beat ANYTHING. If they jumped at Dhalsim, Dhalsim's Crouch Roundhouse (yes, the SLIDE) beat ALL of their jump attacks. ALL. I think Zangief's Crouch Fierce beat ALL of the Shoto jump ins... It was weird, but Ryu and Ken were slow and just really bad. If they did a wake-up Jab DP against someone like Chun Li, Chun could throw them before they recovered, because DPs didn't knock down. And Chun would do more damage. Hahaha... I also rmember if Honda or Blanka jumped at Chun Li, she could jump BACKWARDS and Air Throw them from a range where they couldn't even hit her!!! Her Air Throw was SOOOO good... Man this is nostalgic!! Dhalsim's anti airs were close-up Standing Forward, Short, or Jab. Those worked really well. Man, if you have more questions, ask away! This is so much fun, remembering all this... - James Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 06:52 PM: Hell yeah this is fun! LOL Thats why I put up a post the other day asking if I could put an MK thread in here. it wasnt to be anti-Capcom.. it was just cuz I thought it might be fun to reminice and recall all the ways u used to piss people off w/ Sub Zero's Ice Puddle LOL Was all of this the same on the SNES version? Cuz that is where I learned to REALLY play Street Fighter. And on there I was pretty damn good w/ Ryu and Ken... but I didnt play people who would know, for instance, that the slide beat everything(tho I started to think that might b the case after using Dee Jay). What about fireballers? They may not have been super fest, but they still had their uses I thought. How were Blanka and Honda played in WW? I just basically tried to be patient and look for safe Headbutt/Ball oppurtinities and if they gave me an inch, i would rush them down(as much as one could rush in that game) I remember following sonicnbooms w/ Guile. That wasnt all there was to his game, but that was enough to put him above anyone else(except Sim upon reading all this) When i 1st started I was such a scrub! I thought letting go of the joystick so it could spin when shooting a Tiger increased its execution(like it would work better) 2 games that seriously helped me get better: 1. Rainbow edition.. we had a place called VideoLAX (El Segundo Calif) that had this shit. I literally went UNDEFEATED in this game. This game helped my ability to throw a fireball or chuck a sonic boom whenever I needed it. It's so annoying playing my friends and they can't even do a dragonpunch 2. World Heroes.. kinda like "SF made easy" now that i look back. This game along w/ SF really helped my poking and trapping. I could win w/ anyone(Loved Rasputin and "Numba Wah!"), but I went lifetime undefeated w/ Dragon LOL I cant belive Im remembering all this LOL I shoulda just titled this thread "back in the day" or something Posted by lftrpllr on 04:19:2001 08:16 PM: James do you remember if ryu could safely pass thru Ken's jab fb? Wasn't it too slow for ryu to hk thru? Also, in ww I don't think ryu/ken could even do wake up dp's. They had to fully stand up before they could do one. Not that you would want to since it didnt knock down. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the first version of sf that had wake ups with ryu/ken was CE. Later- Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 08:54 PM: I coulda sworn they had wakeup DPs, but I could be wrong. Their windows were probably really small though Im still a little unclear how a top play WW Gief would handle the ground game against a Shoto or Guile So one SPD was the game? If u did his crossup splash and SPD-ed upon landing, hit or blocked it is unavoidable? I used to use the trick, but never over an over, just cuz I always liked to mix up my attacks. Had no IDEA i was inescapable tho LOL Now that im re-evaluating the old games.. how did WW Gief ever beat WW Sim? Or were his limbs SPD-able? If so, then I could see 'gief being #2 after Guile. Also, I can see why fireballs meant nothing to Sim cuz of the slide, but his limbs were DP and Flask Kick-able. I guess its just clever poke timing like in CvS And if u guys dont mind, how was Ryu in Super? Also, how did the "New guys" fare when they were introduced? (Cammy, Fei, THawk, DJ) Sorry for all the questions, but like James, this stuff takes me back Posted by omni on 04:19:2001 09:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa I coulda sworn they had wakeup DPs, but I could be wrong. Their windows were probably really small though[/i] If you go back and play WW you will see that there is NO getting up animation basically. Therefore there is no truncating of that said animation into a reversal dragon punch. The concept of waking up early with a special move just wasn't even thought of in ww. You can do a dragon punch as soon as you recover from a knockdwon - but it would be no earlier than if you had pressed low short or any other normal as soon as you got up. The window for reversals was first introduced in CE and expanded upon in HF. quote: Im still a little unclear how a top play WW Gief would handle the ground game against a Shoto or Guile Zangief's standing short was really good in WW - it could hit Guile's low forward and gief's spd range was pretty damn far. My basic game revolved around looking for guile to sonic boom than doing jump in fierce, land and spd then go for the repeated spd ticks. Gief vs. shotos was pretty much the same as it is today - poke with standing forward, low roundhouse, etc - they make one mistake they are dead. Gief has almost always beat shotos, in every game. quote: Now that im re-evaluating the old games.. how did WW Gief ever beat WW Sim? Or were his limbs SPD-able? If so, then I could see 'gief being #2 after Guile. This match sucked. his limbs are not spd'able. game just revolved around sim keeping gief out and gief trying to get in. if sim could keep gief out - he wins. if gief gets in, even once, he wins. quote: Also, I can see why fireballs meant nothing to Sim cuz of the slide, but his limbs were DP and Flask Kick-able. I guess its just clever poke timing like in CvS Sims limbs have always been dp and flash kick-able - but has that ever mattered? Sim has ALWAYS beaten shotos and guile (barring perhaps Alpha2 and arguably HF) in every single game, since the dawn of time. You aren't going to beat sim by dragon punching his limbs - all he has to do is fake and watch you whiff then it's a free fierce or whatever, then you get pushed back out and you start the guessing game all over again. Plus since there was no reversal window in WW - sim's ticks were sooooooo good. Standing strong into noogie was near impossible to get out of for some characters, as well as the slide into noogie ticks. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 09:53 PM: LOL this is all so awesome So then by ur "dawn of time" comment, Omni, are you stating that you like Dhalsim over Guile in WW? And when a FB/SB is thrown at 'gief, lariat or jump? Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:19:2001 10:00 PM: how about you abusing Balrog's headbutts in Sf2:HF when we played on Callus huh omni?!! i swear that hold will override anything, and its practically impossible to cross up 'rog. since he will grab you when he re-orients yourself whether it was a deep cross up or not...anyways, i hate dhalshim cause in general i don't like keepaway characters. even though ryu in sf2:hf was played best through fb-dp i refuse to just turtle with fireballs. anyways i was wondering, for ssf2t, is old 'sim better or new 'sim better? cause i think new was the one which you could control your limbs. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 10:57 PM: Wait, u playyed on Callus? Are u saying there's a method of online play? I dont wanna get too excited since I dont know for sure, but that sounded good. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:19:2001 11:31 PM: WW: So if Zangief splashes another Zangief and it's blocked, then both players simultaneously 360 + P, who SPDs? Same w/ a normal jumping tick w/, say, Guile? He jumps in w/ the knee and both players go for the throw. If I remember correctly, the defending player gets the throw. Same as when you try to throw someone waking up. But this SPD w/ Zangief once and you win information seems to suggest the throw is in favor of the jumper. Maybe it was a SNES vs arcade difference or maybe Im remembering incorrectly. Who gets the throw? Also, which is better? To jump in knee to throw, or jump in knee, crouch jab, throw? Also, I believe in WW if you go right next to a fallen sprite and meaty w/, like, crouching shorts, you can be thrown. Just wanna get this attack engine figured out so I can really re-evaluate my SF strategy Posted by resist on 04:19:2001 11:50 PM: resist Did anyonye ever play any of the many different versions of the bootlegged SFCE machines. They were pretty crazy. It was alot different from playing the standard machine and sort of added a twist. It was cool for a change of pace so to speak. Glitches a plenty Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 12:12 AM: Yeah, resist.. thats what i was talking about when I mentioned "rainbow edition" Thats the one w/ character changes(dumb) and multiple heatseaking fireballs that went 1 or 100 miles per hour(pixels per second?) Fun fun fun Posted by Nos99 on 04:20:2001 12:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by omni If you go back and play WW you will see that there is NO getting up animation basically. Therefore there is no truncating of that said animation into a reversal dragon punch. The concept of waking up early with a special move just wasn't even thought of in ww. You can do a dragon punch as soon as you recover from a knockdwon - but it would be no earlier than if you had pressed low short or any other normal as soon as you got up. The window for reversals was first introduced in CE and expanded upon in HF. I've always wondered about that.. So, there is no early frame where you can reversal right? Also, The first moment you can get hit upon getting up is when you can do a move? Meaning, the earliest time you can execute a command is the moment you become vulnerable after getting up.. So couldn't you in theory, perfectly time your DP so that you input the punch at the *exact* moment you become vulnerable? Unless you become vulnerable first, before you can execute a command i guess.. Gawdamn Gief and his low rh.. heh. Posted by psx2000 on 04:20:2001 12:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Wait, u playyed on Callus? Are u saying there's a method of online play? I dont wanna get too excited since I dont know for sure, but that sounded good. yeah check out this site www.emux.com go there and click arcade emulators download callus then download sf2,sf2ce,and sf2hf and u can play them online with others i played some of the guys in #capcom and stuff omni,fmjaguar,chocobo,sirlin,blt,calisean there all fun to play with btw this is psx2000,dc2000,and now D_C_2_0 on mirc. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 12:45 AM: Whoa! Is there a controller one can get for that? Im better w/ pads than sticks. I'd love to play u guys in old school SF, but I dont wanna play using my keyboard... I cant even throw fireballs w/ that thing.. and good luck 360-ing Posted by psx2000 on 04:20:2001 12:50 AM: actually u can buy a Gavis game pad pro they look exactly like a psx controller or a microsoft sidewinder wich is more like a saturn controller . I use the gravis for the time being and its pretty good to use , in fact srk.com has a callus leage and software to meet others called the EDGE im not sure if its still around though. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 01:00 AM: That is SO cool.. if its not around, we should revive it LOL How much do one of those things cost approxamately? If it's not too much, I'll go get one tongiht LOL Whats the most current game u can play on there? Another SF question.. Can Bison do that same Scissor-Strong-Forward link in Super and is it/he as potent? Posted by psx2000 on 04:20:2001 01:12 AM: um the controller goes for about 20 for the game pad pro from gravis, and i think 30-40 for the sidewinder. u can play all cps1 games. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 01:35 AM: Where could one get ahold of the Gravis Pad pro? (should I know a specific model number? Wait, Im standing in a f-in' radio shack(where I work until Sunday) and we have a radioshack brand controller for 14.99 and what looks to be the PERFECT controller if it works. So now that I have a controller.. What do I need to DL and where can i get it? Sorry, Im totaly ignorant on emulating, but I can call my bro and he'll get right on it Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 01:45 AM: Oh, and which games are cps1? All the capcom games on Psx? A3??? LOL Please send me either a detailed description of how I can set this up and/or send me a link somewhere I can get that? Sorry to stop the reminisc.. but I am freakin out over the idea I may b able to play u guys whenever lol Posted by psx2000 on 04:20:2001 02:06 AM: ok basiclly any sf game that came out before super sf2 super, or any capcom games are cps1. Um there is no need for a model number, as for your controller go with radio shack brand make sure it comes with drivers and a good set up. go to www.emux.com and on the right corner there is a box called arcade emulators dl the one called CALLUS,then grab the things called Roms for SF or any cps1 game that runs on callus. Posted by chankalok on 04:20:2001 02:06 AM: i hate shtokans in all sf2 series!!!!!!!!!*uck off.... Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 02:08 AM: PSX cool, man.. then what do I need to DL/do so I can play, well, you for instance? Thanx for all the help Posted by soup or man on 04:20:2001 02:08 AM: Since we're on the subject of "Old School" here, i felt it was necessary to scan these pics. (the files are like 100k each, but i wanted to keep them big to preserve the text) notice the 5th place person in this first picture, for those that can't make out the name, it's Mike Watson. http://phychmasher.tripod.com/SFTourny2.jpg its a bad pic, but these are the names i can make out starting at #1 down to #19 Tomo Ohira(guy in the pic) Jeff Chaefer Frank Kwang Kuni Fenada Mike Watson George Ngo Martin Vega Eric Tetley Vahe Pirjanian Roger Chung Roger Cejalvo Saunter Lee Jason Mcglone Adolph Torres James Cha Ben Kutcher Norm Do James Romedy Mike Hernandez some of these might be wrong, i have poor vision. ------- this next page, well i don't know any of these people but you srk people might. http://phychmasher.tripod.com/SFTourny.jpg these pics were taken at Sunnyvalle Golfland. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 02:13 AM: Hey, PSX.. not only do i need help getting to online play, but my brother, who is at home DLing callus and the games, said he is having trouble finding more ROMs than just SF2. U know of anywhere good to get em? He got all into emulation before so if my bro cant find em, IM assuming theyre tough to find. I really wann play some people in Super! Posted by omni on 04:20:2001 02:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa WW: So if Zangief splashes another Zangief and it's blocked, then both players simultaneously 360 + P, who SPDs? You can't play the same char vs. the same char in world warrior. And I don't want to hear about ryu vs. ryu either quote: Same w/ a normal jumping tick w/, say, Guile? He jumps in w/ the knee and both players go for the throw. If I remember correctly, the defending player gets the throw. Same as when you try to throw someone waking up. The person on the ground CAN throw, but the Guile has the advantage. quote: Who gets the throw? Also, which is better? To jump in knee to throw, or jump in knee, crouch jab, throw? You can almost always counter throw a normal throw attempt - although there are some really weird ticks in world warrior to get out of. As far as the other question, it depends. if you do jump in knee to throw and you get countered, then do jump in knee, low jab, throw or 2 low jabs then throw. quote: Just wanna get this attack engine figured out so I can really re-evaluate my SF strategy why? World Warrior is completely different from the modern day street fighter engine. Classic is different from CE even. You are better off learning CE and up. And to answer another question you had - Bison's scissor kick knocks down in every game after CE. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 02:34 AM: Thats a good call. I just like thinking of higher strategy for games I used to play, cuz it's kinda cool to look back and see em in that kind of a light Omni, PSX is telling me about online play over callus. Do you play? If so which game(s)? Hopefully there are enough people playin to mkae a controller purchase worth it lol So is Bison still a threat in, say, Super? His scissor knocks down, but can he compensate? Posted by Lukesballs on 04:20:2001 02:52 AM: Hey Jesse: If you really want to play old skool, you should come down here to Tucson and play on my cabinet. I have ST, HF, CE, and a lot of the new games like the Vs series games, A2, A3, etc. I can show you a lot of cool shit like redizzies for 4 or 5 characters on HF. Fun stuff. Let me know Geoff Posted by omni on 04:20:2001 02:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Omni, PSX is telling me about online play over callus. Do you play? If so which game(s)? Hopefully there are enough people playin to mkae a controller purchase worth it lol So is Bison still a threat in, say, Super? His scissor knocks down, but can he compensate? I don't play online - all i have is a modem and no controller - so my 56k keyboard honda is too much of a match for most people in HF ^_^ LOL. I haven't tried any of the cps2 online emu's either, cause they only support broadband. Bison is good in super i guess. SSF2 is prolly the one SF that I know least about. I didn't like it when it came out, nor did anyone else in my area. Bison is top tier in ST though, if that helps any. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 03:00 AM: Geoff, I was gonna email you tongiht actually LOL After I went down to GL we stopped talkin.. I thought u were pssed off cuz I ended up losing pretty bad LOL I swear Im good on the DC(I'd say below u and ur one friend.. forget his name.. Steve? He had a red shirt on, but above those other guys there) However tho, I did, since that night, wanna compliment you on ur game.. you are REALLY good LOL I basically tell people I played against and lost to the Arizona champion lol I still think on DC I could at least give u a challenge heh I just have so much more character control w/ a pad for mind games I dunno if a trip to Tucson is all that practical for me as of now, but I appreciate the offer and may have to take u up on it sometime Omni.. so you played Honda in the old school games? How did that plump bastard's high level game go? Posted by Hookshotnight on 04:20:2001 03:37 AM: Super SF/ Gief vs. Sagat glitch? Does anyone know how to perform this glitch? Thanks, Levy Posted by Hookshotnight on 04:20:2001 03:39 AM: The Super SF Gief vs Sagat glitch. Posted by Joe Zaza on 04:20:2001 04:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Omni.. so you played Honda in the old school games? How did that plump bastard's high level game go? Dasrik knows. Sorry to "butt in", but that's my whole hearted belief. Just like Guile. Crouching back until you attack... in which case, jab torpedo. HF Honda... If Honda gets a chokehold throw in CE or HF (either fierce/rhouse), it's an easy 25-30 or more (!) for a good Honda, cuz he can chip with an approaching HHS afterwards.... of course, dead on DP reversals don't apply. He can also C. strong just about any long range crouching move so don't try to walk up. Let's also talk about his "either 5 or 15%" jumping rhouse, which is just that. Sometimes it takes off shit, but most of the time, it takes off a fucking chunk!! WTH is that, you lousy SF programmers?! =) Some kind of cruel joke?! ...and for those who love to anti air with quick regular moves (or long range AA happy 'sims), Honda players, with a simple change of the button, use his "muffle everything God priority J. forward" instead. Good Honda players might be hard to come by, but when you do, pray you got your game down pat... else, it's sodomy time. IMO, HF Honda is a tough match for Dhalsim, Zangief, Balrog, Sagat, Blanka... Blanka less than the rest, but hell!! HF Honda is good... Is this thread for old skool, or *really* old skool? Cuz I'm talking mostly HF here. Posted by Dasrik on 04:20:2001 06:21 AM: HF Honda's too crazy. He wins with only a few moves. * jab torpedo - the must-know move. In case you don't know why - Honda is, for all intents and purposes, totally invincble until he leaves the ground. That means against people without fireballs you can comfortably just down-back all day. * low strong. it's not funny the shit this thing beats. * jump forward (belly flop). if you need to jump you should just use this move. I often use the jump roundhouse for the extra damage, but jump forward is best. It's how Honda can beat Sim. * fierce grab. Painful, and unless you're fighting a l33t ryu or ken, you get free chip afterwards with the hundred hand slap. and there's even ways around the shotos, so... fear. You can get fancy and use fierce torpedos, jump strong for ait-to-air, sumo splash and things like that, but those are really unnecessary. Honda's very basic. Just stick with what's good with him and you'll do fine. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:20:2001 06:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by omni I don't play online - all i have is a modem and no controller - so my 56k keyboard honda is too much of a match for most people in HF ^_^ LOL. I haven't tried any of the cps2 online emu's either, cause they only support broadband. Bison is good in super i guess. SSF2 is prolly the one SF that I know least about. I didn't like it when it came out, nor did anyone else in my area. Bison is top tier in ST though, if that helps any. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com hey omni, chen told me you did get broadband ( i attempted to play sfa2 on kaillera with him, but it crashed immeediately). anyawys honda on callus is a lot better than in a arcade situation. for some reason its harder to mash holds (on the receiving end) and dhalshim/honda/balrog can take crazy loads of life and there's no option to tech. also the lag on callus is a lot worse than on kaillera (which is the cps2 online software) and wake-up dps are virtually non existent so e.honda WILL take off 50% of your lifee with a HHS after a kneebash or the infamous "honda-fuck" hold. and HHS guardbreaks (for some reason) so in additon to chip...lets just say its not pretty. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:20:2001 07:11 AM: What do i need to play on kaillera? And which games does it support? I got a controller, so I'd love to not return it lol That's some crazy shit w/ Honda. How does he handle a fireball laden ground game? Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:20:2001 08:08 AM: hmm kaillera supports practically any arcade game prior to 1997. but most people use it for cps2 fighting games (like street fighter alpha 2, and X-Men vs Street Fighter) or dungeons and dragons:shadows over mystara. to use kaillera go to www.kaillera.com and dl the client software and find the roms. can't give out any links without getting in trouble *disclaimer: you gotta own the arcade board to dl them *. they're easy enough to find on #cps2 on MIRC. btw you MUST have broadband, as omni mentioned. if you need help runnin the prog PM me but i don't give out rom links. gotta keep the pseudo-good reputation Posted by chankalok on 04:20:2001 08:22 AM: hf honda is gd but ssf2t honda is even stronger..... BTW,honda low strong is not gd,because your enemy can sweep your hand.....his low forward is better!!!! Posted by omni on 04:20:2001 09:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hookshotnight The Super SF Gief vs Sagat glitch. It had nothing to do with vs. sagat - it would work against anyone. It didn't work in all versions either - which was pretty damn hilarous at the Chicago SSF2 tournament - seeing hella fools trying it over and over and it not working. Anyways --- Pick Zangief and and either block or get hit by something (easiest is a fireball) or get knocked down - basically have any situation that results in you having an opportunity to get a 'Reversal' message to pop up. What you want to do is do SPD with Forward with Reversal timing. What will happen is that no matter how far away the opponent is - you will immediately go into a upclose kick SPD animation with the opponent in your arms. So what would happen is that people would pick zangief and just sit on the side of the screen mashing out spd motions while ramming on forward all day long. While the person on the other side would be doing fireball then jump straight up, fireball, jump straight up, etc. haha...fun Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by psx2000 on 04:20:2001 09:28 AM: wich version of sf is this glitch in? and does it work on home versions? so basiclly take the hit and do SPD with FORWARD KICK? Posted by omni on 04:20:2001 09:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by psx2000 wich version of sf is this glitch in? and does it work on home versions? so basiclly take the hit and do SPD with FORWARD KICK? SSF2 only. And no, it doesn't work in any home versions. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by SSF2T on 04:20:2001 10:03 AM: That's funny, from what I've heard, though I think it is a different glitch. Is that as soon as the opponnet throws out a projectile(not fireball, unless Dhalsim,) you do the SPD with the kick, and you pull them right in, into the double suplex grab. The trick is, it muct be at the same time. I've seen it done once, and only once. It's that hard. Posted by Lukesballs on 04:20:2001 03:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Geoff, I was gonna email you tongiht actually LOL After I went down to GL we stopped talkin.. I thought u were pssed off cuz I ended up losing pretty bad LOL No way dood! I wasn't pissed at all - I've just been really busy lately and haven't been playing much SF. I was actually going to shoot you some e-mail this weekend and see when you were going to be around. quote: I swear Im good on the DC(I'd say below u and ur one friend.. forget his name.. Steve? He had a red shirt on, but above those other guys there) I believe you man. I have seen some peeps that can beat people consistently on a pad on DC. You gotta get away from that shit and start going to Golfland and start playing on stix tho. quote: However tho, I did, since that night, wanna compliment you on ur game.. you are REALLY good LOL I basically tell people I played against and lost to the Arizona champion lol Thanks for the compliment. Believe it or not, I'm not actually that good at CvS - I'm a bit better at other games like 3S, Super Turbo, HF, and A2. I'm far from being the AZ champion though - I lose ALL the time! quote: I dunno if a trip to Tucson is all that practical for me as of now, but I appreciate the offer and may have to take u up on it sometime That's cool - just let me know what's up. Super Street Fighter Zang glitch: Hey Derek, I wonder if there are different version of the actual "glitch" cause the machine that we had around here would only let you reverse moves with the Siberian Suplex. Its just like you said though - someone would be playing Ryu, Sagat, Guile, etc. and Zang would just sit back, wait for the full screen fireball, and try to reverse it all day. I remember when scrubs learned that shit and there were probably about 6 out of 10 people that started playing Zangief from then on. They really didn't know how to do anything else other than "scrub the stick" (the technique we referred to as scrubs just kept spinning the joystick madly in a 360 motion while pressing all punch buttons) so I would just pick DJ, constantly cross them up all day and land 10 hit combos for free! Ah.... the good old days. Speaking of, are you heading to MWC this year Derek? Who are you playing in ST now? Geoff Posted by jchensor on 04:20:2001 06:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 hey omni, chen told me you did get broadband I did?!? quote: ( i attempted to play sfa2 on kaillera with him, but it crashed immeediately). I did?!?!?!? Be wary... I have never yet played online SF using Callus or any other form of online play. I have heard that there are people out there using my nick for the online Callus, and other nicks similar to it, but I hav yet to actually try it myself... If anyone signed in as jchensor told you that, you can be pretty sure it wasn't me. - James Posted by jchensor on 04:20:2001 06:23 PM: A note on the players listed in that magazine interview of Tomo: Tomo Ohira(guy in the pic) - Tomo was THE original SF champ. He was simply ahead of everyone else in terms of SF. I saw him in a tourney, one time, and he DPes 100% of a Chun Li's Crouch Roundhouses. If she didn't do it, though, he didn't DP. Basically, he never missed it. Granted, the game was slow as molasses, but back then, that was amazing. He also played in a tourney one time and decided to fight his next opponent using ONLY the Short button for Guile. Not only did he win, but he did so soundly. Jeff Schaefer - L.A.'s worst nightmare. ^_^ Old school great, and one of the cockiest players ever. Probably one of the best Turtlers around, when it was called for. Easily one of the greatest players of all time. He played all the way up to Alpha 3. He was the first person to really abuse X-Dhalsim, which prompted the huge huge huge X-Dhalsim influx at SHGL. Frank Kwang - Went to UCLA for a while, and I used to play him there on Super Turbo. Man, that guy was like a machine. Seemed like everything he did was so precise. Most notable skill: in Super Turbo, with Ryu, if Guile missed a Crouching Forward near Ryu, he would sweep it back 100% of the time on reaction (it seemed like) and never missed. Kuni Fenada - Legendary Zangief player. I heard if you missed a sweep, he would ALWAYS SPD you afterwards during your delay. Mike Watson - We all know Mike. He's always been good at fighting games. ^_^ George Ngo - Another classic great at the old school games. He, too, went to UCLA and was one of the biggest sources of competition for me. Martin Vega - I still see him at SHGL a lot. Plays with Mike Watson most of the time. Still a really solid player. Aric Tetley - Poor Aric... doomed to have his name mis-spelled for the rest of his life... If it isn't Eric Tetley, it's Aric Tefley. ^_^ I used to play Aric in Hyper Fighting during High School EVERY DAY during one summer. He used to school me with his Sagat. Things have not changed. Currently, he is my co-worker, close friend, and greatest source of high quality SF comp. If you noticed, he's the one who won the Guilty Gear X tourney and the Hyper Fighting tourney at UCLA. I'll just summarize some of the others I know... Roger Chung was one of the original 4 terrors of World Warrior. He, too, went to UCLA, but moved to Taiwan (I think) before I actually got there. After that, I'm not really sure what happened to him. Roger Cejavo was another person that played Hyper Fighting with Aric and I. We used to play EVERY day during one summer. Man... James Romedy: one of the best players from San Diego. Played all the way until Alpha 3. His X-Dhalsim was what inspired Jeff Schaefer to pick up X-Dhalsim in Alpha 3. Norm Do was another player who eventually went to UCLA, and provided me with good Alpha 3 competition. Man, everytime I read that list of players, it's always so nostalgic for me... I only knew most of these people late in my SF career, as I was never really a part of the SF scene until Alpha 2. I once saw someone in my high school reading that very magazine. I saw them looking at the Tomo interview and I walked up to them and said I knew a lot of those people. They laughed at me and thought I was a big liar. LOL. I guess you can't really blame them... ^_^ - James Posted by Evil Ryu on 04:20:2001 07:00 PM: ......I would like to make it up to the top sometime soon....and I hope to join the internationals if there ever will be one..... My cousin told me once...... to be good at all the alpha games and the SF games now you have to know HF and CE by heart...... Does that hold true for most of you SF veterans???? Posted by soup or man on 04:20:2001 07:32 PM: quote: Aric Tetley - Poor Aric... doomed to have his name mis-spelled for the rest of his life... If it isn't Eric Tetley, it's Aric Tefley. ^_^ I used to play Aric in Hyper Fighting during High School EVERY DAY during one summer. He used to school me with his Sagat. Things have not changed. Currently, he is my co-worker, close friend, and greatest source of high quality SF comp. If you noticed, he's the one who won the Guilty Gear X tourney and the Hyper Fighting tourney at UCLA. oops the picture wasn't very good, plus im legally blind without my glasses on. poor guy, i know what its like to have a constantly mispelled or mispronounced name. Posted by Apoc on 04:20:2001 07:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by omni I'm hella tired so I'll just answer this and try to answer the rest tomorrow but it seems like a lot has been expounded on, so let me know if you want something specific answered. In World Warrior - there is no Reversal window what so ever. So if Zangief ever knocked someone down via low roundhouse, a throw, spd, whatever - there was no way to get out of spd ticks in that game. Also - he didn't bounce away after SPD, so as soon as he landed, he had advantage time to walk up and repeat. Granted, the zangief player could have fucked up his timing and you could try to dragon punch out or whatever, but it defintiely isn't in your favor. As far as Bison's redizzy in CE - it was something like umm...low strong into scissor kick, low strong, standing forward and they are dizzy, then jump in roundhouse, low strong, scissor kick, low strong, standing forward. something along those lines...the scissor kick, low strong, standing forward is the important part. me go to bed... Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com The common one done in most tourneys I went to was: Get them dizzy...doesn't matter how. Bison just links and scissor kicks and links more normals. If Bison touches you you should be dizzy. Heheh. But after the dizzy you do a roundhouse slide to get on top of them. Then it's 3 cr. jabs,scissorkick,low forward, st. roundhouse...then repeat starting with the slide to get close. Also Sim was very high in CE. Apoc. Posted by shockwave on 04:21:2001 12:30 AM: to jchensor, omni, or anyone: whatever became of ohira, and when did he stop playing(or does he still play)? has ohira ever faced off with valle, choi, etc.? does anybody know of famous old skool sf players from abroad? (japan, etc) Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:21:2001 12:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by jchensor I did?!? I did?!?!?!? Be wary... I have never yet played online SF using Callus or any other form of online play. I have heard that there are people out there using my nick for the online Callus, and other nicks similar to it, but I hav yet to actually try it myself... If anyone signed in as jchensor told you that, you can be pretty sure it wasn't me. - James FUCKING A!!!!! i'm too gullible :-( Posted by chankalok on 04:21:2001 02:40 AM: can someone make a zangief magic throw save for finalburn? Posted by tempest on 04:21:2001 03:56 PM: ok now this my question in hyper i think i can't really remember where waz ken ranked? i mean he had triple dragon punch and people here abused it to the max , but in the rankings already there is nothing said bout him waz he all bout that tripledragong punch:: i'll be honest i waz scrubs back then :: but i do remember ssf2 where sagat waz monster i enjoy reading this thread it bring back memories if even if i waz scrub i enjoy playing old school games . peace Posted by energon on 04:21:2001 10:58 PM: What's up everybody?! I pretty much play SF2 HF the most and it seems in the past there was great deal of controversy involving meaty moves? Do they exist or what. In my experience they do but every once and a while someone does wake-up uppercuts through them but that happens like 1 out 100 times. I read about all the arguments in the past but it doesn't seem like a clear cut answer was every found. Posted by VintageRyu on 04:22:2001 01:49 AM: SSF2 As for Omni's statement about Sagat & Dhalsim being the best characters in SSF2, I must greatly disagree. Being that this is lone SF game that I have perfected, I would counter by saying that a great "shodo" could easily do in both Sagat & Dhalsim. When fighting Sagat w/Ryu or Ken, all one has to do is simply do a jab dragon through one of Sagat's tigers to throw off the pace (especially since Sagat will probably try to bombard you with a flurry of tigers, hoping to engineer the speeds in such a way that you land on one, or get nailed when jumping at him). By doing a jab dragon through one of the tigers (esp. a low tiger) it throws off the rhythm for Sagat for a milli-sec (which is all the time you need to take a step in close). Because, once you're in close on a Sagat player, the pressure is completely on him/her. I would also say that Guile could do some serious damage against Sabat just because the Tiger-Uppercut is indeed a vulnerable move. If Guile does a jump'n' medium at an angle, that should frustrate Sagat's attempts to Tiger-Uppercut you. As for Dhalsim, if Chun-li uses her jump'n' shorts, it will thwart Dhalsim from doing a medium slide to get you dizzy. Once this is taken away from Dhalsim, you have greatly neutralized hir power. As for using Ryu & Ken against Dhalsim, or any other character for that matter, my advice is to make sure you DICTATE PLAY. I realize it's easier said than done, but if a Ryu/Ken is able to Dictate Play in SSF2, all an opponent can do is "sit back & enjoy the show." Posted by chankalok on 04:22:2001 02:21 AM: shotokans must died! Posted by jchensor on 04:24:2001 03:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by soup or man oops the picture wasn't very good, plus im legally blind without my glasses on. poor guy, i know what its like to have a constantly mispelled or mispronounced name. [/B] No, not your fault. THEY printed it as "Eric" in the picture. THEY misspelled it, not you. ^_^ So no worries there... - James Posted by jchensor on 04:24:2001 03:17 AM: shockwave: Tomo got absorbed by the most powerful force in the world that can cause ANY person to stop playing video games: He got a girlfriend. ^_^ At least, that's the story, anyhow. This occurred during Hyper Fighting, so he never was champ in that game, though I'm sure he woulda been had he kept playing. - James Posted by chankalok on 04:24:2001 03:45 AM: old school sf2 rock! All times are GMT. The time now is 12:15 AM. Show all 69 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.